Round 2: Hyundai Tournament of Champions
January 7 2011
2:41 pm
Villegas DQ’d after rules violation
Watch Villegas at the 15th hole
Here's the shot that resulted in a rules violation for Camilo Villegas, eventually resulting in his disqualification at the Hyundai Tournament of Champions.
KAPALUA, Hawaii – Camilo Villegas was disqualified Friday morning following a rules violation during his opening round on Thursday at the Hyundai Tournament of Champions.
Villegas was chipping up the slope toward the green at the par-5 15th when the ball twice rolled back down to him. The second time, he flicked away a loose piece of grass by the divot as the ball was still moving down the slope.
That was a violation of Rule 23-1, which states that, “When a ball is in motion, a loose impediment that might influence the movement of the ball must not be removed.”
Villegas should have taken a two-stroke penalty in addition to the double bogey 7 that he recorded. After finishing his round, he signed for an opening 72, which meant he was actually disqualified for signing an incorrect scorecard.
A television viewer noticed the possible violation, which was then brought to the attention of tournament officials.
Slugger White, the PGA TOUR’s vice president of rules and competition, said he got word of the possible violation Thursday night but didn’t get a chance to watch the videotape of the shot until Friday morning.
“It was pretty obvious what happened,” White said.
“I waited for Camilo to get here this morning. The first thing he said was, ‘Am I gone?’ I said, ‘Well, yeah, but I’d like you to look at the tape. He said he’d like to look at the tape. He came over and saw it and knew right away.”
Villegas released a statement saying that he clearly violated Rule 23-1.
“After viewing the tape with Slugger White this morning, it was clear what happened,” Villegas said.
“White it is obviously a disappointing way to start the season, the rules are the rules. And when something like this happens, it’s important to me that you’re respectful of the game and the people involved.”
Villegas’ disqualification caused a shuffle in Friday’s second-round tee times. Rocco Mediate, who was originally supposed to go out as a single in the first group of the day, will now take Villegas’ vacated spot and will be paired with Ernie Els at 3:30 p.m. ET (10:30 a.m. local time).
“We talked to Rocco about it and he was very amenable (to the change),” White said.
The first tee time of the day will now be at 3:10 p.m. ET with the pairing of Jason Day and Justin Rose.
Even though it was not the way Villegas wanted to celebrate his 29th birthday Friday, White said the Colombian star took the news in stride.
“He was upfront, as big as he could possibly be about it,” White said. “Really wonderful about it. He understood and went about his business.”
Said Villegas: “Everyone involved with the Hyundai Tournament of Champions has been terrific this week, so I will work hard to earn my way back to the event next year.”
Villegas was making his second appearance in the Hyundai Tournament of Champions. He finished tied for 12th in 2009. – Mike McAllister
PGATOUR.com is part of Turner - SI Digital, part of the Turner Sports & Entertainment Digital Network 
I noticed that while I was watching the 1st round on my DVR last night & thought… wait a second… your not allowed to do that.
Good to hear Camilo kept it classy.
Isn’t the penalty for violating 23-1 two strokes, not one?
Another stupid golf rule when no advantage is attempted or taken.
Two shot penalty, not one. He would have incurred the general penalty of two penalty strokes under 23-1. It could be argued that Rule 1-2 could also be applied.
pga rulings should not be influenced by television viewers.
Rules are rules, they are there for a reason. Good of him to be up front and a big man about it all be it a tough way to start the year
Jon, I typically agree with you as to the rules. But, in this instance he removed a lump of grass that the ball cold have come to rest up against and made for an impossible shot, thus a true advantage was gained.
jon, I respectfully disagree with you on this one. If a player moves anything in the line of the ball while the ball is moving has to be a penalty. If not players would be sweeping the line of a putt like curling while a ball reaches the hole…it’s a great rule.
Its not a stupid rule. It may not have made a difference in this situation, but imagine if someone tried to move a big rock or stick? He is a professional, he should have known better.
What if today was next Monday and Camilo violated the rule on Sunday and won the tournament. Does he have to return the thropy and the $$$$$$?
This is ridiculous.
Saludos, seria interesante que esta jugada nos la explicaran en Español, pues nos parecio algo confusa en la traduccion.
Felicitaciones a uds, y para Camilo, suerte y buen pulso, EL tiene con que salir avante,
Camera ever inch of the golf course if you are going to allow viewers to phone in infractions.Additionally, there was a marshall not paying attention to the players teeing off on the hole he was working yesterday.For 10 minutes deliberation took place about where Dustin Johnson’s ball crossed out of bounds because the marshall wasn’t paying attention.
Golf is and should be a game with an honor code.
@William
I believe is it considered final once the tournament is over.
Are you kidding me, A rules violation called in by a TV viewer!!!! Maybe this weekend during an NFL playoff game I’ll call the NFL when I see someone holding or during the Knicks game I’ll call the NBA when I see a foul. I think it is absurd, that the PGA would listen to a TV viewer. What’s next?
I wish the PGA would grow a pair. The PGA has got to stop inforcing violations that are called in by TV viewers. Especally after the round is over. This is not fair to the players or the fans. I would hate to be a player and get disqualified by some guy who is not even at the event or even in the same state.
If the PGA wants to be weak and keep allowing TV viewers to be officials, then they should at the very least not disqualify the player. I am sure that these players would have taken the penalty, if they knew before they signed the card. Just add the violation strokes to the score and tee it up.
If the PGA keeps allowing this, then they need to make sure every player at every tournament and every shot is on tape to be reviewed at the end of the day by the public. Some tournaments do not even have TV coverage until late in the afternoon. How fair is that.
If the PGA wants to be weak and allow the TV viewers to make rule, then save some money and get ride of your course officials.
Come on Guys, Grow some.
I’ve been playing golf since I was 12 years old. I’m 62 now…do the math. I thought that I was pretty knowledgeable when it came to ‘The Rules of Golf’ I saw the video on SportsCenter, but not once while watching him flick the piece of divot with his clubhead did I think he was trying to gain an unfair advantage of any kind. I know…rules are rules. Just like the incident many years ago when Craig Stadler kneeled on a towel while playing a shot from under a small tree. The ground was wet and everyone in the entire golfing world knew he was only trying to protect his pants from getting muddied, certainly not ‘building a stance’ but… I know…rules are rules. To borrow a phrase from a certain NFL pre-games highlight show:
“C’mon man!”
He clearly cheated… I am a Villegas fan, but if you watch the replay he clearly realized where the ball was going to come back to, then quickle took 2 steps to his left flung the grass out of the line, then stood there like nothing happend… He clearly knew what he was doing…
wow, I didn’t know a viewer called in the violation. I have mixed feelings about people who do that.
For the Record, I am not the person who called in the violation… I just happened to notice it while I was watching last night.
I believe that it is totally inappropriate for someone to be allowed to influence the outcome of competition who is not a player or on-course official. That should be a rule!
I totally agree Chuck – why is the PGA the only professional “league” that allows viewers to have ANY control over the outcome. Viewers are not paid by the PGA and therefore should have no influence over the tournaments. If the marshall missed it, the marshall missed it, done.
There are calls each week in the NFL that we see that the refs miss – the NFL is man enough to let the games be fought on the field until the clock runs out and then it’s over. DONE. And while they will occasionally come out after a game and point out mistakes, nothing is changed.
For those that say this protects the integrity of the game I would challenge that – I believe it hurts the general viewing population and their attitude on golf. Let the players and the paid officials decide the outcome ON THE COURSE, not us weekend hacks.
Well played Camilo for handling this BS rule like a real pro. While it is great to see a pro act like a pro, it is unfair to penalize them for a BS rule that obviously needs to be changed…one of many that need to be changed.
As a former competitive player and former club assistant professional letting a TV viewer is so off the earth it’s ridiculas!! I agree with James–the next time I see any rules violation on the gridiron or the hardwood I think I’ll call the stadium/arena and report those violations. Think for a minute they would listen to my “armchair officiating”. Probably not.
They should also disqualify Graeme McDowell. He tried to pick-up the sod after his long drive in the rough yesterday. You can not move a stone in the grass, but you can move and tough on the grass to give you a better swing on the ball.
Good God Man
No problem with the penalty at all….he improved his lie no doubt and it’s quite possible after watching the video that the ball could have came to rest against the divot or in the pitch mark had it deflected off the divot.
HOWEVER, golf is a game that can be ‘adjusted’ without impacting the tournament. Once the rules violation happens, the player should be penilized the two strokes anytime between the actual violation and his tee off time the following day. Meaning, Camillo should have been assessed the penalty when Slugger spoke with him…..a DQ is totally ridiculous is this and many other golf situations……ESPECIALLY since it was called in by a ‘fan’
So, to be overly precise, I’m not sure I understand how he violated the rule. The rule says that you can’t move an impediment that “might influence the movement of the ball” – the divot he removed clearly was not going to influence the movement of the ball. We know that, since it’s on tape: the ball rolls down the hill and misses the divot by at least 2 inches or so. I guess in some alternate universe, the ball could have bounced differently and rolled over the spot where the impediment used to be, but that’s not the case here. It was physically impossible for this piece of grass to influence the ball. Now, whether Camillo knew that at the point he moved it may be a different question. However, I find that question to be hypothetical and irrelevant, since we know the truth: The ball would have never hit that divot.
I know the viewer that called in the violation, and it didn’t quite work out the way most people are assuming.
The violation was seen, and the viewer attempted to contact media contacts that were in Hawaii to alert Camillo to the potential issue so that it could be reviewed *before* he signed his card.
It’s not like the PGA Tour has a hotline where people can phone in potential issues.
The downside is that by the time the issue had made its way to the Tour folks, the card was signed.
I’ve played that hole many times, and run into the same prediciment, only difference is it took me four times to get it on the green from 20 yards and I still made a nine. I agree though with Brent and the others that someone who is not a rules official can do this. As Chuck said, add it to the score and let him tee it up. He should have at least been approached by a rules official on the course, ie: Slugger at the end of his round, to let him know about the infraction. There was close to an hour from that shot to the end of his round.
tv viewers are not pga officials.the pga should be disqualified and be made to pay restitutions.
[...] didn’t see a penalty at the time.Time for Camilo to hit the beach with a few Pina Coladas.PGA Tour /**/ Related Posts:Camilo Villegas Poses Nude for ESPNRocco Does a Camilo ImpressionHappy New [...]
Doenst his playing partner have to look at his scorecard too and sign it? If so then he should of been DQ’d too, right? Not sure how that works. The fact that someone can call in and report this is just plain stupid. The PGA needs to change the rule about listening to fans.
I cannot possibly take the PGA seriously as long as the continue to make decisions based on viwer phoned-in comments and complaints.
I like James’ comment submitted @3:22PM regarding viewers calling in from home reporting infractions of the rules. This week-end you can be sure I’ll call the Office of the Rules Commisioner of the NFL or whomever if I see an obvious holding call or pass interference that wasn’t called on the field during the upcoming playoff games.
Rules are rules, and if you can do it in one sport you should be able to do it in all of them. Fair is fair.
Well golfers,welcome to a stupid application of a very good rule. Judgment should be part of the application. If there was no chance for the ball to be influence by the grass,let it pass. Otherwise, you all should wait to replace your divots until it’s clear that your ball has come to rest …
I am glad that I don’t play by the rules of golf. It is a hard enough game as it is without me shooting 150. Golf is a diminishing sport – at least in the U.S.
This same infraction happend just last year in a PGA tournament. It happened (I believe)at Pebble Beach on the 14th hole. I don’t remember which player did the exact same thing when his ball rolled back to his feet, but in this particular case (same exact situation) the player was deemed to have not meant to keep his ball from landing in the same divot. I watched both incidents on TV and there was no difference between the two. So, tell me why one guy gets away with it, and the other doesn’t. I assure you, the same conditions should have a applied to the forgiven player.
Just like duston johnson at the PGA, it is one of those incidents where you don’t think about it and it just happens. It is a fair rule, but it is not like Mr.Villegas tried to cheat. I respect the rule and I’m glad he stood up and realized it just like dustin johnson did!
Rule 23-1, which states that, “When a ball is in motion, a loose impediment that might influence the movement of the ball must not be removed.”
If you watch the the path of the ball, it didn’t roll over the the area that was removed. So therefore I don’t beleive this rule should have been applied to this situation. I know the rule states “might influence” but if thats the case then no player or there caddies should replace any divots untill the ball (any ball hit, from any location) comes to a complete stop.
[...] Camilo Villegas was disqualified following a rules violation. See the report & video here. Reply With Quote + Reply to Thread « Previous Thread | Next Thread [...]
No issue with viewers reporting rule violations. Only healthy for the game as far as i’m concerned.
It was a clear violation. No question! The really concerning thing for me, was the players ‘action’ he suprised me, in his quick and deliberate movement back towards the divot, from standing alongside his caddy.
I’m a Camillo fan, but i wouldn’t have expected him to react like that. Is it any wonder he took the news of his DQ so well? He would have been worried himself once he’d viewed the tape, it is pretty damning!
Happy Birthday Camilo! Big Brother is even watching the PGA Tour. What has this world come to?!
I’m totally agree with William…
This is ridiculus… what happen if he wins the tournament.. he has to give the money back…
Also, PGA Tour is the only league where watchers can call and mess with the players. SO, they have officials only for drink Pina colada and to the beach? That is their job. I ask if Tiger Woods or Phi do that, so, people call?
Sorry, but this Bull S…..
WRT the application of the rule being unsuitable in this case! Please..
This is a case of the player doing something he shouldn’t have done (knowingly or unknowningly) and the correct rule being applied correctly retrospecively aided by TV viewers.
The player should be aufait with the rules. As should his caddy, it’s their responsibility to know them. Officials missed it, or were’nt present to witness, same applies to the other player/caddy, so again only good for the game that the rules are applied consistently without fear or favour!
Golf isn’t meant to be fair! lol
It has just about all been said. I have to agree with two of the ideas. First, the player who co-signed the scorecard should be DQ’d for signing an incorrect card as well. Second, if the PGA is going to continue to allow people to phone in and point out possible violations by the players, the penalty should be assessed before the tee off the next day. It seems there is no time limit on informing the PGA of a violation of the rules unlike the NFL, where there is no appeal after the next play us run.
More silly golf rules. I love and respect the game but some rules don’t make sense. Sure a penalty for moving the grass but not dq for signing a wrong card! Remember Furyks dq last year for being late to the pro/am?
My favorite is lateral hazard vs. O.B! seriously? no real difference but major difference in the penalty….
Reminds me of Robin Williams on golf, and how they invented the game.
After Jim Furik was DQ for not showing up on time for a PRO AM, the PGA changed the rule that did not apply to every player equaly as not every player had to participate in it. Good for the PGA!
This is not much different…He did beack a good rule and should have been given a two stroke penalty if seen bye anybody on the course so he would have had the change to add it to the score and move on. TV viewers only have access to few shots from a limited amount of players on scattered holes.
The PGA should act again, a la Furik case, and review its policy on calls by viewers…
He was never DQ’d for this violation.
So everyone is clear, he was DQ’s because he signed for the wrong score!
Ok, is there time limit for caller to report a violation? If someone called in on Sunday for a violation on Thursday would it stand?
@ SteveT – If proven. Yes
A cheat is a cheat, whatever the time!
The PGA needs to set up a toll free number so every wanna be rules official can call in any and every rules violation, or they can just let the officials on the course do their job. I assume they get paid very well to police play.
The rules are the rules. I’m a PGA Professional
(club pro) and the rules can get a little wierd, but we all know or should know them. The fact that He accepted it like a man when it was pointed out was great. I’ve made many rulings as a rule offical where the player goes nuts and even been hit while holding the rule book and pointing the rules infraction to them. Carry on like gentelmen!
Why didn’t the Golf Channel announcers comment on the violation right when it happened? I was watching and thought it might be a violation but the announcers said nothing whatsoever about it. All they did was laugh at his predicament of the ball rolling back at his feet. But flipping that divot away was obvious at the time and they didn’t catch it.
Villegas should have known the rule at the time as well.
This was an attempt to gain a better lie. As per rules, it is a violation.
The bigger point is that the PGA should allow players to place the ball on fairway when the ball is in a divot or any surface damaged by other players. A good shot on the fairway should not be penalized. Shame on you USGA/PGA.
Good point Rajesh. Why isn’t a divot “ground under repair”?
Why should a divot be GUR?
Thee’ fundamental rule of golf is that; You play the ball as it lies!
It’s not a fair game. And never has been, and all the more better for it!
Some golf rules are complete crap ,all he did was move a piece of grass, which I think should be picked up by the player who did it before him , either toss into the rough or put the divot back.”"nice job Caddie”" Dustin Johnson should have one that tournament last year , but once again due to a rule that is crazy he gets a penalty and loses a major championship.. Unbelievable. Maybe there should be a rule against beards on tour(Hunter mahan) pack your bags your done..whynot thats not a dumb rule . Right?
If I may, I would like to offer a solution to those who are upset with rules, rulings, rules officials and armchair callers. Put aside your dislike of the USGA and anything in golf that smacks of order and civility and get a Rule book and take the time to read it.I’m talking to Pros and handicap amateurs alike. Make notes of what you don’t understand and ask someone who knows. Attend a USGA/PGA of America Rules Workshop. They are open to anyone. The Rules are not as difficult as the naysayers make them out to be. Not rocket science. I just shake my head at what I see Tour players do in rules situations. If I had that kind of talent and played for that kind of money, it’s just good business sense to have a good working knowledge of the rules. Some do but most don’t and that’s why players like Camillo and Dustin get whacked.
I like to think that if I was a professional sportsman I would know the rules of the sport from which I made my living. Does Villegas not know the rule? He should be made to do the equivalent of traffic school; sit him down in an office for 8 hours and teach him the rules. He saw the ball heading towards the divot and moved it – a clear violation. Either he doesn’t know the rule in which case he needs needs to start learning them or he does in which case he should be banned for a few weeks. Smiling the next day does not make up for this.
It’s not the PGA Tour’s fault. As has been pointed out, it is supposed to be a game of honor and you are supposed to call infractions on yourself. That does not apply to most other sports and so the analogies above are poor.
A copy of the rules are free and available to anyone who
requests them from the R&A!
http://shop.randa.org/index.cfm?cfid=20452619&cftoken=80201572&action=productlist&deptid=2&free=1
http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Amateur-Status/Rules-Quiz.aspx
There’s a rules test on the R&A website that most would struggle with!
More a quiz than a test, but i’d bet even those amongst us who believe themselves as being rules savy would be well challenged in getting them all right! :)
…
I’ve played golf forever and I would have done the same thing. I didn’t know the rule either. If he would have replaced the divot it would have just been worst for him. Rules are rules, but again I it looks like he did that without giving it any thought whatsoever.
…
Golf Rules Officials are not ‘referree’s', as such. The
purpose of the Officials is to assist the players in relation to
the interpretation of the rules as they play. That is very
different from a football or basketball referee’s position. It’s
the players and caddies who must abide by the rules. The integrity
of the whole field must be protected and as such, DQ for incorrect
card was the only answer, irrespective of the source of the ‘error’
being pointed out. You cant just allow players that get caught out
simply add a penalty that they should have added in the first
place. Viva la pga/usga Cheers
[...] Click here to see the video. Posted in Camilo Villegas, Rules of Golf [...]
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Julio Sanin
Si entras en la página de la FVG http://www.fvg.org/ podras ver una breve pero clara explicación del porque la descalificación de Camilo..
makes no sense for there to be a penalty when the ball did not roll to that area. if the ball went closer to where he removed the divot then it should be a violation\
@ Ryan – In the absence of a crystal ball, how would anyone, never mind Camillo, know where that ball was going to end up prior to it stopping?
He moved the divot before the ball had stopped. It may not have rolled to where the divot lay, but equally it could have!
Irrespective of where the ball settled, he broke a rule, it’s in the book.
And if a guy watching the game on TV knew it was a rule violation, you’d sure as hell EXPECT a PGA Tour Pro too. Simple really!
It should be ENDED– Stop listening to phone calls to officials. What’s wrong with those people???
Same thing here. As soon as he swiped that chunk of dirt away I said wait a minute …. I mean the ball is in motion therefore you have the old “rub-o-the green” and have to accept where the golf gods place your shot. Otherwise players would be pulling up bushes and such to avoid the bad lay.Exangeration, but you get my point. I do have to question though…how much time do you get to replace your divot? Would he have been ok to pick up the dirt and put it back in it’s hole?
@ Steve – Replacing the divot would have resulted in the
same violation in this particular instance. I.E. It was clear the
ball had not yet come to rest and equally clear it could return
back down the slope from where it came. I find it unbelievable that
a pro at the very elite level of the world game, made this kind of
mistake (i’m assuming/hoping unknowingly)
As a Director of Rules for a State golf association, I
believe everything that was done in this case was for the good of
the game. Obviously Camilio knew he might have violated the rule
after the fact. When he sees Slugger in the morning and his first
question is “Am I gone” he knew he might have done something wrong.
Golf is so different then football or basketball, so the
comparision of calling in a rules infraction during one of those
events doesn’t seem comparable. Steve, “rub of the green” is when a
ball in motion is accidentally deflected or stopped by an outside
agency.
2 points guys. The DQ was not because Camilo violated a
rule; rather, he turned in a score card with a score lower than the
actual number (rule 6.6d). Even Camilo understood the
situation…”Am I gone?”. Had he realized the violation and
corrected his card, before submission, he’d still be in the field.
Second, all a caller does is bring attention to a possible
violation. If a caller saw the incident, then it’s on tape. The
Tournament people are who decide if the incident was a rule
violation. Since the entire field plays by the same rules, any
violation is penalized. WRONG-IS-WRONG. And since there are no
Chains To Move; no Points To Disallow; no Quarters and/or Periods
To Replay, the guilty individual is penalized. As I see things,
that’s the beauty of Golf. No-one is given a pass to
CHEAT.
did anyone see Carl Petterson ball move on his address greenside chip on the 9th round 2 ??
Contributors need to understand that it IS part of the
Rules of Golf to use television footage “and the like” to assist in
making a ruling.(Decision 34-3/9) Additionally, in order to ensure
that a fair decision is made, information from all available
sources must be considered by the Committee, in this case a viewer,
but it could be a marshal, a TV commentator, a caddy, a
spectator… before the decision is made. It is strange that none
of the “expert” commentators saw the obvious. Villegas did not have
a problem with the ruling, so I don’t see why anyone else should.
Would viewers be happy if a rules violation pointed out by a
spectator in round 1 was not used and the player not penalized, and
that player beat Tiger by one stroke to “win” the US Open? I guess
so.
Carl Pettersson grounded his club and caused the ball to move on his chip shot on hole 9, I believe. The camera had a closeup and it was very clear. Someone please notify this guy before he signs the wrong scorecard score.
Upon reading these comments, it appears some people havn’t a clue what thier talking about, but many others have some valid points. I’ve been playing the game for 20 years now & love the game & try to stick to the rules as best I can, (rules are rules) but there are some rules that need to be termed differently, be modified or just deleted.
As for viewers calling in to either ‘warn’ the violator or tattle, this is absolutely ridiculus. Do these folks have nothing better to do with thier time? Can you imagine if other pro sports allowed/tolerated this? I hope that the USGA, R&A and other governing bodies change this in the very near future.
I also agree with the folks that say the penalty should be able to be applied before the player tees off in the next round.
Hey PGA–why can’t you guys take your head out of the sand and stop taking calls from the general public in order to DQ your best talent that happens to be on TV the most. MR. 183 on the money list is never on TV but somehow has an unfair advantage of not having to deal with the chair umpire sitting at home. How does this kind of garbage benefit the game? If its not called on the course at the time by an official or the player then let it go.
Why do I believe that is this had been Tiger, nothing would have been done.
I E MOVING A 4 MAN ROCK
I am a Camilo’s fan and watching the reply several times I
am sure he suspected that the ball coming back could hit the piece
of grass. Probably he forgot the rule or probably it was a
reflexion act but he did. What seems ridiculous is the way the rule
was applied… I am sure that who wrote the rule was thinking in
the way the ball goes from the place was hited to the hole not even
consider to apply when the ball goes in the other direction far
from the hole.
If you don’t think the rule is stupid – consider this. Prior to putting the ball on a green, or striking the ball on the course, a player is permitted to remove any loose impediment in the path of the ball. So tell me what the difference is between doing it before you strike the ball or afterwards? Have you ever had a leaf fall in the line of your putt while the ball was moving? Its sucks doesn’t it? Why should you be penalized for not noticing something earlier rather than later?
The way I see it, the tournament loses a top player costing both the tournament viewers and the player a bunch of money. And to the snooty losers who say he should know the rules of the game – I say give your head a shake. He obviously knows the rules – he just made a mistake. And honestly – no player should be expected to know the entire rule book , I have a sr. job at a bank and I can’t recite every risk policy the bank has. Our policy binder is thicker than the phone book. Players should be expected to behave in a way that is consistent with the spirit of the game, and that 2 stroke penalty should be applied afterward.
Furthermore, if the TV audience is going to be allowed to call that stuff in and that call was received prior to him finishing his round, than that information should be relayed to him before he signs his card as a matter of integrity.
I hope that al these viewers who watch so intently to help get a player DQ’d are happy. Personnaly it is a crock of s^^&&t that you can be sitting in your living room drinking a beer and see something and call the PGA tour. How abt if you see a interior lineman hold during a play can you call th3 NFL. hell no they would laugh you out of the stadium.
Let the boys play there game. If they see it they WILL call it. no more of this b.s from “fans”. they are a discredit to the game
p.s. if is tiger then it would be ok as he is a jerk anyway
Seriously – i agree with Joe. The rules are designed with the purpose of upholding the integrity of the game. I believe that if CV was made aware of the rules violation – which he should not be expected to have considered in the moment – than I do not believe he would have signed that card. He would have adjusted the score on that whole after consulting the appropriate people and signed it once it was correct.
Golf is amazing – but golfers can be very lame.
Why didn’t McDowell incur a penalty when he moved the sod behind his ball on the sixth hole during the first round?
How lame is the PGA tour that a TV viewer can potentially change the out come of an event? Can you imagine any other sport doing that? That is totally lame by the PGA. Any oh my god TV viewer, get a freaking life.
Was it right? No, it was a rule violation. If the ball wasnt in motion, then this wouldnt even be a blip on the radar. These guys are always moving debris and other objects from the ball when its not in motion…all the time..
I think it may behoove the PGA/USGA/Whotheheck ever to enact a rule preventing a violation from being reported by anyone who was not physically in person when the violation occured. Someone calling it in is, albeit, aribitrary. As pointed out by other commenters, Will fans now be inspecting every single shot aired on TV to ensure the rules are upheld? What about the guys who arent recorded, who maybe gets one or two swings aired on TV when the drop a long put, or hole out?
I digress, this is really the fault of the governing bodies of golf…and yes, congrats to Villegas for taking it like a man…it happens, but theres always next week…
PS: Why are people still bashing Tiger? He may have broke your heart with his personal shortcommings that arent the busines of the public…but get the heck over it and let the man play his game in peace
Rubin, well said. I would suggest it may need to be more than someone “physically in person”, as in a PGA official. Now I admit, I am not that up on PGA rules, etc., so I do not know how many officials are on course, but to have TV viewers affecting tournaments? That is ridiculous.
tim Finshem screwed big time this time around. beginning of the year, this hoo-haa happens. no wonder the europeans are not playing on your tour. i expect more to follow after this blunder.
lastly, pls do NOT accept tv viewers calls anymore to save the pga tour.
Read the article – article said “2 shot penalty in addition to the 5 bogey……” I’m pretty confident no pro intentionally violates rules or cheats in anyway. I do think that some pros don’t speak up when they make a mistake on someone’s card as was the case when Sergio was DQed several years ago and that is just as bad (or worse) than when a television viewer calls in and reports a violation. Leave the officiating to the officials. We are spectators, we watch for the enjoyment of the game and root for our favorite player, not to police them.
Bert Dagastino…..You are more than likely the guy no one wants to play with because you think you know all the rules of golf and try to enforce them every time you play.
You could have been the one that made the call.
This is disappointing that someone has taken the step of notifying of Camillo”s error outside the event itself.
The PGA allowing this to happen makes very little sense.
In Soccer, games can be won and lost on decisions, these are the vagaries of Sport, especially Professional Sport.
I saw an umpire dis-allow a goal in a hockey match that determined who would win an Olympic Medal = but I didn’t have the number of the umpire to tell her ….
What happens if someone see this a week later – then what?
The PGA tour must stop this nonsense!! Only an appointed official or a player in the event should be allowed to call a penalty.
Fans should ONLY be that, FANS. You can not allow them to affect the outcome of the competition. Letting fans call a ruling makes are sport look bush-league.
I have seen on occasion a ball move slightly in the rough as happened yesterday in Hawaii on th 9th hole when the club is soled behind the ball, this seems illegal, is it?
Many folk seem to not understand several points re. this
issue. 1/ It was mentioned in reports that the caller actually rang
to attempt to get someone to pass his message on to Camilo BEFORE
he signed his card. Had the message got through, due to this
persons ‘heads up’, Camilo would still be in the the tourny. 2/
Camilo broke a rule of golf. Whether you, me or the milkman think
the rule is silly or not is totally irrelevant. If you break a rule
and don’t penalise yourself, according to the rules of golf, you’ve
gained an unfair advantage. 3/ It was very apparent that CV moved
the clump of grass because he thought his ball ‘may’ come back to
the divot. Whether it did or not is beside the point. 4/ He should
have known the rule. 5/ Why did he do what he did if he thought it
mightn’t help him with his next shot? 6/ There has been heaps of
times when the commentators see something amiss and show it on TV
and then bring it to the attention of the officials and/or the
player. They do it for the integrity of the game and also to alert
the player prior to signing his card, so as to ensure he doesn’t
get DQed. 7/ That is what the person at home was doing – trying to
get a message to Camilo before he signed his card. 8/ To
reitterate, Camilo should have known that rule. That he didn’t is
on him and he has since said this to be true. 9/ Right or wrong,
pro golfers hold themselves to a higher standard, so attempting to
use comparisons to other sports is not applicable on this occasion.
Can’t work out the big deal. CV should have known he broke a rule.
He didn’t and it cost him. But please don’t continue this childish
potting of the person ringing through to help CV. If the officials
got the message through earlier, you’d be hailing the person a hero
for saving Camilo from being disqualified!
Amigos de la pagina, gracias por responder, son mas de 90 respuestas, de las cuales solo hay dos en Español, por eso quiero aprovechar para sugerirles que en estos temas polemicos utilen las traduccion al Español. ya que en Colombia y Latinoamerica el Golf ha cogido demasiada fuerza, gracias a Camilo Villegas y a Lorena Ochoa nuesxtros maximos lideres.
A Jose,a quien no tengo el gusto de conocer, y que no tengo su correo y me gustaria comunicarme con EL, gracias por el dato de la pagina, que me va ha servir mucho, aunque la idea es que se haga en Español, he sido juez de GOLF, entiendo bien la problematica, por eso lo hago pendsando en los aficionados que poco han profundizado sobre reglamento.
De todas maneras, lamentable, pero es bueno que las nuevas generaciones entiendan que “”LAS REGLAS SON PARA AYUDAR Y NO PARA CASTIGAR Y EN LA ELITE, HAY QUE ESTAR SIEMPRE ACTUALIZADO, NO SE PUEDEN DAR VENTAJAS”!!.
I can only assume that those of you bashing the tv audience
fans for calling in rules infractions would also let your own
violation slip by if no one in your foursome saw it? It’s obvious
Camilo was unaware of the rule, let alone the violation, but I bet
he would rather be called on it than win by 1 stroke and have this
hanging over his head. If anything, it’s the harshness of the
penalties that should be argued. Tell me something, if you were in
the gallery and saw an infraction that went un-noticed by the
players or the rules officials, would you still keep quiet? And
what would make the difference between a fan in the gallery and one
sitting at home? Don’t compare golf with any other sports because
there are way too many variations why couch referee’s would never
work in other sports. Golf is a gentleman’s game where honor is the
rule of the day, and as a golf fan, i think it’s great that ALL
fans are allowed to participate in enforcing the integrity of the
game.
All things being equal … I’m not sure if anyone has the video but before Carl Pettersson’s 4th shot by the green on #9, the ball clearly moved when he rested the club head behind the ball …
@ Jagsr – Thanks for that, very nice of you to say so!
Sorry to dissapoint you but, i didn’t make the call, however had i witnessed it on tv, live in real-time i may have done. But with the sole intention of having the info relayed to the player to avoid a DQ! Not get a DQ!
In theory i’d make the call to ensure the guy took the penalty, and AVOID the UNESSISARY DQ!
See the difference?
It’s pretty clear that in the land of the mulligan, the average golfer doesn’t give a ‘hoot’ about the rules of the game, or applying them consistently. Not only do you undermine the games integrity, but you only serve to chet ones self, how do you measure true progress in the absence consistenly applied rules, without fear or favour!
All the best old chap!
I of course refer to competition golf!
The competative game, amatuer & professional alike, should be played honestly with integrity at all times, with good understanding and application of the rules throughout whether you’re Tiger or a high handicapper!
You want to play a bounce game? Well that’s something completley different, hell for the love of the game, go enjoy yourself and apply the rules of the game as the 4-ball sees fit – Have fun!
He violated a rule but since it wasnt “Discovered” until later I question the disqualfication. I think that if a player violates a rule, and it is discovered after someone just had the need to call it in, it should be up to the player to disqualify himself. I think the rule should be if a player signs an incorrect card, and if the person is not “disqualified” by tourney officials within 3 hours (or whatever) of signing the score card, then it would be up to the player to disqualify himself and not tournament officials. Most of the terrible violations that have occurred are only discovered by these “fans” that just need to think they are involved. JMHO
I think viewers and officials are just trying to keep the game pure—otherwise it could morph into whatever it is they play in the NBA—it sure as heck isn’t basketball—
pga rulings should not be influenced by television viewers. They should mind their own dam business. It’s up between the players to call a penalty on theirselves or others ON THE COURSE that may have seen the infraction. Not someone watching in TV Land.
Or the moral of the story. Don’t fix you divot.
to the moderators,
i didn’t realize this was an exclusive club. as i don’t see anything in my comment i would consider offensive, judging by some of the comments already posted; and multiple posts by the same individuals and the number and frequency of posts leads me to believe it has nothing to do with volume, i can only conclude that you pick and choose who’s comment you want posted. way to alienate your fans. i guess i will take my ‘fan base’ to another website.
Did anyone notice that right after he hits the shot there is a big divot sticking up out of the ground that is not there when the camera zooms back again. Then, when the ball is approaching he moves another smaller divot he thinks could affect his lie, and it is this instance that is deemed the rules infraction. So he actually does it not once, but twice. The first time (the one that wasn’t actually caught on camera, but like I said it’s pretty obvious if you watch the video again) he clears up the divot was very likely not intentional, but the second time he clearly has the intention of moving the divot to potentially get a better lie. Whether he did it to gain an advantage or not only he really knows but it is a bit suspicious that the first thing he says to Slugger White the next morning is “Am I gone?”, as if he sort of already knew but didn’t say anything. Anyways, I think it would be fairer and more logical in situations such as these if two penalty strokes were added to the score in hindsight rather than a DQ, because obviously two strokes extra are more than enough to cover any possible advantage gained in this particular instance. The reason he was DQ’ed in the end wasn’t because of the rules infraction but because he signed an incorrect scorecard, which seems a bit silly to be honest…
my sincere apologies. as soon as i post my ‘whine’, voila!!! this was my first time posting comments on this site so forgive my impatience. does it normally take that long to post?
sorry
Carl Pettersson grounded his club on the 9th hole causing the ball to move and did not take a penalty stroke or replace the ball. Tivo came in handy as i watched several times to confirm it happening. When it comes down to it, i was more excited that i noticed something that others apparently didnt.
I’m not an expert on the rules, but im confident something was violated. The rules are the rules and i dont think he notitced, as im sure Camillo didnt realize he broke the rules before getting dq’d. Golf is a pure sport and thats why we love it. I trust the game and player regulate themselves enough that the viewer doesnt need to or should.
I think they should make a new rule. You do not catch the violation before he turns in his card, then no penalty is given.
@ matt – maybe there should be a power ball rule put in place?
So if you cheat and get away with it before you hand in you card, you shouldn’t be DQ’d but instead play your next round with a bright GREEN golf ball, that flashes when the player hits it! Call it the power ball, but as the power ball has in-built intelligence (solar powered intelligence) that can detect when subsequent violations take place…
Once detected the power ball with turn a bright RED colour and start off a series of ultra high pitched sirens placed all over the golf course, which are linked up to the leaderboards, which then show the name of the power ball cheat!
Whatdya say?
FWIW IMHO the rules of golf have by and large stood the test of time with limited adjustment. Best keep it so…
Yours in (power ball) golf – Bert
I’d like to address the situation with Carl Petterson. I just watched the replay and I am confident that there was no violation Of R18-2a.First off, a ball is deemed to have ” moved ” if it leaves its position and comes to rest in any other place. This is the USGA definition. Carl did address the ball, the grass compressed (spongy turf at Kapalua). It would appear to the viewer that the ball moved but having seen this type of situation many times in 33 years of officiating, the ball actually does not leave its original position but appears to move slightly on an angle due to the compression at address. The ball’s original position is not compromised. There is no circular ” turn ” and when the club is removed for the backswing, the compression is negated.In my understanding of the definition and 18-2a, the ball has not moved. This scenario has been discussed many times at USGA/PGA of America Rules Workshops.Pleasr do not compare this situation to the Kenny Perry situation. It’s a differant animal. I hope this helps your understanding.
I love the game, but some of these rules please I think a lot of these rules were just put in in order to keep the game(not a sport) more exclusive. All you tv viewers who call in violation, just play and enjoy the game,losers!!
I always heard of viewers calling in rule violations. My take is if you break the rule, it doesn’t matter who calls u on it. Whether its a rules official or some guy in his moms basement, doesn’t matter to me. My question is, where do they find this phone number to call? Not that I’m going to start calling in but its not like NBC has a crawler going across the TV, “call if you notice something”. I’ve just always wondered that.
I have a different take on this which I have not heard yet
in all the discussions and blogs I’ve read. My question is: “Was
the divot fragment actually a loose impediment?” By my reading of
the rules, it was not. If Villegas was DQ’d for violating Rule
23-1, I assume he violated the part of the rule that says “When a
ball is in motion, a LOOSE IMPEDIMENT that might influence the
movement of the ball must not be removed.” It appeared to me that
he moved a fragment of the divot (turf/dirt). If this is so, it
follows that the divot would be included in the definition of a
“loose impediment.” A “loose impediment” is a defined term in the
rules, but a divot fragment does not appear to fit within the
stipulated definition of a loose impediment. The rules say that
“Sand and loose soil are loose impediments on the putting green,
but not elsewhere,” therefore the soil/grass divot would not be a
loose impediment under that part of the definition. The definition
also says that “Loose impediments are natural objects including:
stones, leaves, twigs, branches and the like; dung; and worms,
insects and the like…” The divot fragment does not seem to meet
this part of the definition either. It is not a “natural object”
like those listed so much as it is part of the course. So, I
conclude that the divot fragment was not a loose impediment,
therefore Rule 23-1 was not broken.
Rules are rules yes but leave the enforcing of the rules to the guys it actually applies to in the moment. All these guys who call in to ‘protect the game’? No, they want to feel important or empowered and that’s ridiculous. The guys on TV aren’t perfect and everyone of them would call a rules violation on themselves IF they knew they broke a rule. It’s not like Camillo said “I know I’m breaking this rule and I’m going to try and get away with it”. With or without TV they all respect the game and the rules and they do their very best to adhere to them. No one needs a ‘pious’ 34 handicap sitting in his lazyboy to call a rule violation on a player thousands of miles away for fear that the game will be ruined.
There are rules officials on the course, why in the world would the PGA allow the influence of viewers when accessing penalties? These guys have the most character of any athletes in sports but no one is expected to be perfect. If the rules official with the group, or the PGA officials watching the monitors don’t notice it then it shouldn’t be called. This is happening way too much so now there are self appointed rules officials watching every week!
It is a very obvious rules breach especially for someone playing in pga tour competition. I bet he realized that he did it right away but thought it wasnt a big deal.
These guys are getting paid million to play and they don’t know the rules?????????
They also have caddies who should be their helpers. You would think that so much money on the line they would spend a little time to learn the rules a little.
tv viewers calling in rules has to be the dumbest thing i have ever heard. Next saturday when the refs blow a call im gonna give the NFL a call to let them know they missed Michael Oher holding James Harrison or Ed Reed interfering Mike Wallace. what has the world come to
I do not expect to see this in your blog and well i did try to contact the golf rules whistle blowers hot line and especially when i’d seen Camilo get DisQualified, and i’d seen what he did and and thought what he did was against the rules but then the next day and it may have been the camera angle but Jonathan Byrd’s caddy fixed a divot on the same hole between Byrd’s ball and the hole and well seems to me that also was an infraction and well i wonder if Camilo got any money cause ther was no cut and so the rules change each and every week and i’m thinking the punishment does not fit the crime, and well years ago the Walrus got burned well on the kneeling on a towel rule infraction, and well i suppose he was DQed aslo and many others and well seems the rules could be more flexable at times and yet, need i say more:-) It’s a great day for golf!
[...] Slugger White, the PGA TOUR’s vice president of rules and competition, said afterward on the tour’s website. “I waited for Camilo to get here this morning. The first thing he said was, ‘Am I gone?’ [...]
[...] He was chipping up slope toward the green at the
par-5 15th hole when the ball twice rolled back down. The second
time, he flicked away some loose pieces of grass by the divot as
the ball was still moving down the slope. To view a video of the
infraction, click here. [...]
I am very thankful to this topic because it really gives great information -,:
He absolutely needed to be penalized. but I’m not sure that a tv viewer needed to make the call. He (Camillo) obviously wasn’t making the call at the time of the infraction. So what makes any one sure that he would have made it once he realized it? I was taught that we as golfers kind of police ourselves and he certainly wasn’t doing that.
Finally! This is just what I was lioonkg for.